IS HOMOSEXUALITY NATURAL OR ILLNESS?
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Being homosexual today is certainly not easy and is very difficult challenge.70 countries in the world still criminalize homosexuality, many people find that homosexuality is "not-natural", that is some disease to be healed.
If parents have child that is homosexual, usually this is big shame and tragedy, parents and family feel that they should be blamed for mistakes in breeding and torture themselves for something nobody is guilty of. Actually there is no mistake, no problem to solve- for some people this is just natural instinct.
Even today, in 21st century, many people think they are not accepted by God and they are not allowed to experience paradise because of their sexual interests which differ from interests of majority - the truth is that society is the one that condemns, not the God. All holy books are written by priests.
At the same time while hypocritically preaching to the world "laws of god". the most holy people are not so holy in the practise: f.E. many catholic priests are well known to be homosexual.
Homosexuality has always been normal part of human life - in all cultures and all societies...from the beginning of human history.
Altough many of us think about themselves as they are not animals, our bodies certainly are - and do belong to the nature. In animal kingdom homosexuality is usual part of sexual behaviour among many species: dolphins, monkeys, lions....actualy up till now sciensts found more then 1500 species that regularly practise homosexuality ! So homosexuality is very natural.
I belive that trying to revert somebody who has natural homosexual instict is the same pressure as that somebody tries to revert heterosexual person to become homosexual - it just cannot work.
Is there today more homosexuals then usual? I doubt it. The percentage is same as always, but when there is 6 billion people on Earth using all kind of media it is very normal that homosexuality is more obvius, that is all.
In addition to that, we created problem from , for some people, normal part of gender expression. If we would accept it as normal and natural, it would immediately not represent problem any more. Sexuality is certainly not only part of life we need to think of, so if we do not see these people only in various sexual poses, this thing will stop to bother us.
Love is always - just love: not more, not less, some people express it on one way, some other on another way. That is all.
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Bugis of Indonesia recognize 5 genders among the prople
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While we make so big deal about something what is for some people normal and should be accepted as such, here is very healthy example from one part of Indonesia: the Bugis ethnic group (native to the Indonesian island of Sulawezi) recognize five gender cathegories and they belive that all 5 genders are here on this world to help us find balance, peace and prosperity.
The Bugis acknowledge three sexes (female, male, hermaphrodite), four genders (women, men, calabai, and calalai), and a fifth meta-gender group, the bissu. So for them is very normal to be "straight", "homosexual", "bisexual", "hermaphrodite", "asexual"..and they do not vaste their energy in condemning energies of nature - instead of that, they accept it as fully natural and bless diversity of this world . Such society is certainly very healthy and many people see it very shining example of peace and tolerance on this world.
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Love is just love, people love on many various ways - from the beginning to the end of time love is the strongest power on this world, and if we let ourselves to learn that lesson from Bugis - life will certainly look much better.
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Please watch video presented on National Geographic:
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Bugis of Indonesia recognize 5 genders
Buy book about 5 genders in Indonesia on Amazon.com, links are here:
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Very well put, Tatjana-Mihaela; as a heterosexual parent raising a homosexual son I am amazed at the lack of honesty our current society (in this year of 2009) exhibits over homosexuality. Your writing quite eloquently puts something I've thought for quite a while but have not been able to articulate. Thank you.
Well WS, I removed that sentence which disturbed you, because obviously some people are too sensitive and can wrongly understand what I meant.
Well if I was gay, I would certainly find ways to live it and would not care what society means. For women is that easier and better accepted here, altough people hide that on their working places - male and female.
I am so glad that you are proud of that - this is right attitude.
Thank you very much Dyonder. Lack of honesty is what hurt us the most. With truth is much easier to live.
Thank you for your nice comment and contribution here.
Very sensitively and well written.
Wow, this was very fascinating, Tatjana-Mihaela. Yes, I'm glad I'm straight too! I just hope I don't bump into any bissus during my travels :D Thanks for sharing this. It sure makes for some interesting debate.
Thank you very much, Kevin!
Well Dohn, as a heterosexual, you would not be very interesting to homosexual people so do not worry.These people know how to recognize sexual sygnals...as well as everyone else. Problem might occur only if somebody is sending mixing sygnals.
Hmmmmmmmmmmm! Well I guess it had to happen sooner or later. I actually disagree with you on this one. It's a complicated subject so i'll refer you to the homosexuality excerpt from my book on HubPages here...
http://hubpages.com/hub/Up-One-Level-The-Book-Chap
Everything and everybody has most likely had some sort of homosexual experience generally while growing up but as a rule of thumb as an adult, I believe you'd be lucky to find a dozen true homosexual creatures anywhere let along 150.
I have no personal problem with anyone's sexuality as long as they don't hurt anyone and don't break any laws. Keeping their sexuality out of my face would go a long way as well. I've just about had it with "Gay Day" celebrations at places like Disney World and parades of ass grabbing bonafide flounces marching down my street.
Homosexualtiy is a major social illness that if allowed to exist unchecked, will bring down a great country like the USA faster than you can say "cross dressing faggot".
The ONLY thing that maintains any societies moral standard which allows it to grow and prosper from any country and/or era is sexual control. Marriage in general between a man and a women as dictated not by our cockamamie gods, but by Mother Nature, the true leader of the pack. Go agianst Mother Nature and it's all over just as it was with the Roman Empire or any other great societies that succummed to sexual promiscuity.
Bringing children into a homosexual relationship is where the real trouble begins. I was a single parent of four kids that grew up happy and well adjusted ONLY because I was aware of their inherent NEED for female nurturing I flat out couldn't give them personally. Nor could any women give them what I did as their dad. It's a long story but I made arrangements for them to be with their mom as much as I could along with other female friends and relatives and I saw to it they didn't grow up with misunderstandings as to why they just had me most of the time. Their in their 40's now and seemingly well adjusted with their own families except Sharon, my daughter but who knows? Only time will tell if they remain well adjusted. I know for a fact, not haveing their mom to tuck them in bed every night must have had some negative effects. My singularity was unavoidable, not planned as a life style. Takeing on children in a homosexual enviornment should be illegal under most circumstances. There is no adolescent on earth going to grow up completely normal with two parents of the same sex. Danger danger danger...
And by the way, I can proove homosexuality is in most cases not a matter of choice but a matter of social illness that needs to be treated by competent medical people and not sanctioned by our idiot "politically correct" governments........................................................................................................
I was helping a friend paint a house the last few days so I haven't had time to send the rest of that obesity chapter which I will probably tonight. You should read it if you have time. There's a lot of tips and tricks in the end part in particular.
Also I'll be sending a bunch of cool pics one of my kids sent me that you may want to use in future hubs. I have a database of about 60 thousand instant access entries from animations, to photo's, clip art, and sounds and music I've been collecting for ten years. A lot of it is unique as the clips were taken from ad's and other stuff that doesn't exist anywhere else. If you need something you can't find on the net, let me know, I'll have it your way in seconds.
One more thing...I know nothing about Croation music or what you like or dislike. Music and creative electronics are my main interests (in between raising rug rats) so if your into really great music, again, let me know and I'll shoot you some stuff that still brings tears to my eyes or has the power to get me out of a sick bed and drive the neighbors nuts behind my drum set.
Stay loose kiddo...
Even though you got homosexuality all wrong, we sill love ya. :>)
Hehe, Craig now when here is 6-7 billions of people on Earth we can be just very grateful that there are so many homosexual people and that ones who do not want to have children, otherwise there would be much more troubles on that planet then now.
Well, in many human societies men bond together with men and women with women, what men and women have in such societies in common is sex only. Children were for centuries raised by women only. Men were cooperating in breeding very occasionaly.
Now, world is changing...we might call it "karma".
BTW,when there is any type of parade with sex as main topic, I would not find very interesting.
My point is that love is love. (I do not talk about sex, sex can be love and can be expression of domination).
When child is raised by only one parent (like me, or your children) means that another gender is missing. What is the difference?
Some parents do not love their children at all, even when they are heterosexual, many hetero married couples live together while hating each other - I suppose this model should represent good example or what?
Thank you very much for your comment.
My attitude to homosexuality is 'so what?'
If people would stop thinking about what other people did in bed and thought about their attitudes to others instead, they might develop healthier relationships with everyone, regardless of their sex or sexual orientation.
When I saw the title of your hub Tatj I thought "How brave of you" but, with all do respect and I still think you're hot, I don't think you answered your question.
Is it natural or illness?
You said "it has always been normal part of human life - in all cultures and all societies...from the beginning of human history." SO is it natural? an illness? or a natural illness?
Lately, I've come to look upon homosexuality as a "FETISH" like being turned on by bestiality, feet or "furries"
So are Fetishes considered natural or illnesses?
Yes, Liam, that is the right attitude. Thumbs up for you!!!
Hehe PJK, I think I said clearly enough - that homosexuality is natural... actually we all know it. "Love is always - just love: not more, not less, some people express it on one way, some other on another way. That is all."
Title is just title - to provoke discussion. I did not want to push too hard with this topic, because I did not want that people start to argue here, so my Hub is really diplomatic.
This is highly sensitive topic...
But.... I do not consider "natural" any molesting the other person in the name of any type of "sexuality"....and certainly cannot consider things like pedophilia or bestiality (zoophilia) like fetish. Having sex with majority of animals (except with bigger ones) is definitely cruelty towards the animals and people violate their rights while doing that.
I also put here video with Bugis of Indonesia - to present "healthy example of acceptance the diversity" that oppose to religious intolerance of various communities that condemn homosexuals (while at the same time many of them who judge homosexuals in public, practise the same activity - privately)
I hope that now is much more clearer, many thanks for the visit and comment.
Individualism lifestyle, I recall a time when people stayed in thier closets. Straights, bi, gays, trans, ect...
Now its in your face and forced on you everywhere. Schools are now mandated by the Federal government to teach alternative lifestyles. I am old school and believe to each thier own and live and let live. However, don't attack me because I'm not into the alternative experiementation. People like Perex Hilton and Adam Lambert does thier cause no good by demonstrating vile hatred towards straights. We no longer exibit class and control. Shock and awe is the mantra from Hollyweird to political correctness and a backlash may be on the horizon. Medically, there are some born with chromosomal abnomalaties and for others its a choice. There are many former Gays now straight and vice versa. Th emost intolerant appaer to be the very ones claiming discrimination.
I finally got to catching up with replying to hubs; when I read the comment which you removed, where you said you are glad you are not homosexual, I didn't interpret it in a negative way; you meant to express you understood the courage and challenge our homosexual brothers and sisters experience in choosing a sexual orientation that is considered a crime in many countries. And I agree!
My views on homosexuality is, that its the soul's choice to experience this in this lifetime, all is perfect, we are all unique expressions of God. We as world should be focusing more on how we treat one another, than what our sexual choices may be (as long as there is no harm to another human being or creature).
You wrote about the subject with understanding, intelligence and sensitivity. Thumbs up!
Well Mortgagestar, people like circus, so we have circus. My theory is - when we accept diversity as normal, circus has to disappear.
If people would not be so hypocritical about their sexuality there would not be such mess on the world...and certainly not so many "sex-y" demonstrations.
Hehe, from the point of view of people with different sexual interest, heterosexuals seems the same - like offenders who think that only their behaviour is normal.
Thank you very much for your visit and comment.
Well, PJK, what are men actually afraid of? That some other man will rape them in the darkness?
As a woman I must say, that many of us are afraid of that as well,and many innocent children, so let us share the same fear... and try to solve that problem - together.
Dear Mary, you described the best what I was thinking of.
Thumbs up for your comment!
Thank you.
personally,I would say this: "sex is for procreation, not recreation". Once one starts getting absorbed in feverish, confusing sexuality, one statrs to build up some very bad karma. That is why the gurus counsel their married disciples to focus on their meditation and yoga and other devotional activities, and to downplay the sexuality in their lives. Thanks for the information about the Bigus, but again, there you do not see heightened sexuality (breast implants for transvestites, etc)
1500 hundred species out of millions is hardly definitive of normal.
Asexual doesn't count because for those creatures there is no alternative.
Heterosexual animals cannot continue their species by being strictly homosexual. It is only humans that can use sperm donors and surrogate mothers to advance their specie.
If Homosexuality is a choice, then it is a deviance from the norm. If Homosexuality is a difference in genetic wiring, then it is a genetic deviance from the norm.
Love is love, true, but you can't marry the dog that you love.
Of course, Vrajavala, that there is not excess of sexuality among Bugis - they do not excaggurate anything, they just simply live their lives.
Thank you for comment, and yes, you are right, but on this world there are very little yogies and saints who would be able to follow brahmacaria without raping everybody and everyone after 2-3 months of practise.
My dear Opinion Duck - you cannot marry dog - but very many people have sex with their dogs, sheeps, chickens, snakes etc, as well as perform sexual activities with little children and they do not care about it at all.
This is also human behaviour - and very sick indeed - I did not hear you complain about it.
Tat
I wasn't asked about it.
This is also deviant and not normal behavior.
kharasho
Well, so many men ARE homosexual and have children with women. Just because of procreation. This IS fact. In some arabic countries there is even saying "women are for having children, boys are for sex".
I know many men who have children and they are homosexual in their privacy, while being able to hide that fact to their wives, at least up till the moment wives discover that. So - SUCH BEHAVIOUR IS TERRIBLE, because hiding so important truth can bring a lot of troubles to the ones who do not know it.
The best is - to be who you are, if your sexual pathway does not allow procreation, that is very OK.
There is 7 billions of people on this planet, and we use so many resources of this planet that we would need 4 Earths not only one, so who really cares if some people do not have children while being asexual, homosexual, or just do not want to have them.
Human race was always having certain percentage of people with homosexual interests, from the both sides, male and female. In all cultures. F.e. in Greece and Rome - homosexualism was very normal.
If 2 main oppposite genders - male and female do not learn how to better understand each other, there will be much more of gays. Because for some people this is not natural instict - it is also matter of personal choise - if they cannot communicate with opposite gender, they find happiness with their own.
I consider also as latent homosexualism, if person spends 90% of time with his/her own gender, and just have sex with opposite gender...and children...
Why ? Sex is not only factor which determines homosexual interests - overal interest for opposite gender is that one that matters: mental, emotional and physical. Sex is just 5% of physical life.
I do not talk about SEX only. Sex is not what we are doing 24 hours per day... majority of people have sex very rarely, so forget about sex.
Think about souls...
With whom you spent majority of your time, this is what counts. And is nothing wrong to have soulmate of any gender.
Hehe, here in Croatia (that is full of "macho men") we even have very popular song with verses "What I am supposed to do, I like sex with women, but my real soulmate is my buddy who understands me best."
Please read the comment from Violet Sun, and you will understand better "female" opinion.
Thank you for visit and comment, Kharasho.
I can't help but think the majority of the people who claim there is a problem with Homosexuality are men, referring to other men being gay, and that women being homosexual doesn't offend them nearly so much, (if at all).
Personally I can't see the problem in homosexuality if the individuals are happy, and I am sure God wouldn't have given them those instincts without a very good reason. Leave them alone all of you homophobes out there, and concentrate on your own relationships.
Nice article Tatjana :)
I pretty much agree with mistyhorizon and with your article! I am very happy in my heterosexual relationship but that does not mean that I could not become just friends with gays or lesbians. I have got gay and lesbian familymembers and would not like to miss them.
Your article pretty covers all angles of the subjects and I learned something that I did not know already: thank you for telling us about the Indonesian tribe, in my view they are an example to many other societies.
If anybody in the UK in a position of influence such as a doctor or MP even raised that question in public they would be quickly forced to resign.
Thank you so much, Cindy for refreshing comment. I could not agree more with you:
men are just afraid that somebody could rape them in the darkness, because they know that men are sexually aggressive when they have excess of hormones. Also majority of men DID HAVE HOMOSEXUAL experiences when younger, at least imaginations about it, so they are ashamed of that now.
From the another point of view, women in sexual act together - WOW! It is so exciting. Especially if man can join them! Superb! Majority of porns are based on at least one only-female sexual intercourse and no man complaints about it.
Pure hypocrisy, nothing else!
Whatever you said - I completely agree with you.
Thank you for very nice comment and visit.
Thank you very much Mouche for such a nice opinion and very healthy attitude.
I am proud because you add here your certainly valuable comment.
Well, Rickrideshorses, because of such hypocrisy there are so many homosexuals "under the cover"
Thank you for your visit and comment.
Fascinating hub! I had never heard of the Bugis before - interesting to know and I bet they don't pour their energy into writing hundred of words of raging comments over an article on homosexuality!!
As well as being a positive hub it was also very informative. Keep sending that positive energy out Tatjana!!
Dear Apricot, I just love your insightful comment. Bugis can certainly enjoy much more life, because they do not waste their time neither energy to hate people who are different.
Thank you so much for the visit and comment.
Very well-written and rational approach to a subject that seems to provoke so much passion among the insecure. It is really a natural phenomenon, and those who think it is a sickness are unfortunately victims of their own self-serving dogma.
Bravo i hvala na izvrsnom clanku!
Hvala ti puno, Lifelonger.
I love your comment.
I have always enjoyed your travels and photography. But I cannot agree with you. It is as obvious as the nose on my face it is not natural (as your title asks). If it were natural the human race would cease to exist. There is a purpose for genitalia. Do you know what it is? Are you surprised that the male genitalia and the female genitalia are made by nature for each for the perpetuation of the species? Just because 1% of people do something does not make it natural. Hell, 5 % of people steal, does that make stealing natural? People have all sorts of proclivities. They may feel inclined to punch me in the nose; to take your car; to break your windows; to start a fire; to molest a child. To even say that something is natural if anybody wants to do it will undermine civilization and lead to absolute ruin. I don't care what people do. I DON'T WANT TO KNOW. All this in-your-face political demanding is not going to end well.
And I agree with Misty that it is mostly men disgusted by homo men's activities that is because any body with a lick of sense knows that the anus, the most filthy place on the body, the exit for human excrement, is A place that it is a severe deviancy to want to make love to.
And God did make himself clear that He finds homosexual sex acts to be an abomination—in Judaism, in Islam, and in Christianity. It makes God sick. It is a mental illness and was defined as so by psychiatry until maybe 30 years ago when they changed it under political pressure from homo groups. It is in fact, the work of demons. It is evil. Other than that, I have no problem with it. :)
Hi, James, I have seen very many christian priests (any type of Christianity ) who are homosexual. So IF THEY DO NOT THINK THAT HOLY BOOKS are right, I cannot think as well.
Many thanks for your visit and comment...
Punching someone in the nose, stealing their car, breaking their windows, molesting a child etc, all have one thing in common, they effect other people who don't want to be on the receiving end of such treament. A gay person having sex with a similar minded willing person is not hurting anyone, therefore it is no-one's business but their own. Let's not forget that it is quite normal for Chimpanzees to "mate" with their own sex as a part of their submission to the leader of their group, and no-one says that isn't natural!!
BTW, God never said he found "homosexual acts to be an abomination", as he didn't write any of the holy books, people did, who are more than capable of putting their own interpretations and beliefs into anything they write down.
Sorry James, on this occasion I totally disagree with you, but nothing personal, just a difference of opinion.
Cindy, and agree with every your word. Thank you.
Homosexuals are born that way just as I was born Heterosexual.
This is well known and understood medically, so I say those who state otherwise have an agenda.
Great hub, thank you!
Thank you so much Earnest - your comment is so true and so refreshing. It is so nice to see you here.
Hi Tatjana, you should put your input on the currently very active forum here: http://hubpages.com/forum/topic/28688 (related heavily to this very topic)
Thank you Cindy for the link, I will certainly think about it....
This comment is for Craig Suits, first of all, and of course this is my opinion, but, if a gay or homosexual couple passes all of the qualifications to adopt a child, then I see nothing wrong w/it. My reasoning behind this is, think about the millions of unwanted children that are out there w/out families and homes. Just because someone is gay, doesn't mean that person would not make a great parent. Like I said before, if a gay couple can qualify to adopt a child just like a straight couple, then go for it! Yes, the home will be different, but these children are raised to have an open mind towards society and don't bring hatred and ignorance into the world as many other people continue to do. As far as gay parades go and things like that, who cares!!
Humans are by nature a mass of cruel prejudices. Slowly, we seem to be evolving out of them.
I would suggest you rethink your attacks on religion within you hub. If your intent is to broaden people's acceptance of homosexaulity, then you do yourself a disservice by attacking religion or God, for it is the people of faith that are by far the ones who hate homosexuality. They are the ones you have to speak to.
As you say, homosexuality is natural, but so is the cultural bais against it. Societies have most likely been trying to repress it for 10,000 years, about the same amount of time we've been warrior cultures. Ever since one tribe attcked another tribe to take their rescources, societies have been keen to have a high birth rate, and hence have punished homosexuality, with a few noted exceptions (Rome and Greece, but these states require by law that men have sex with there wives, and didn't allow for the marraige of men to men and women to women - I believe).
While sexuality is somewhat wired in us (to what degree and how is a matter of great debate) we are very much affected by social programming. You statement that you can't force heterosexuals into homosexuality flat is wrong, of course you can, just as homosexuals have been force for thousands of years into heterosexual norms and behavior. But more to the point the great mass of people are swade, to some degree, by social norms. You allow homosexuality too become a truly accepted norm, and you'll find a lot of people who are wired to be homosexuals practicing homosexuality. People experiment. People are sexual and seek out their desires, when those desires can't be met, they often substitute, a substitution can grow into the new norm of their desire. People can also choose a partner based upon their ability to relate not their highest sexual desire. I know one homosexual woman who's married to a man, because she likes him (a first in annuals of marraige I suppose)
The acceptance of homosexaulity is on the rise in the world and I believe the actual rate of homosexuality is too. The world overpopulated to the rise of homosexuality is beneficial to mankind. Actaully, I think it's most likely going to become the norm, well...
What is going to become the norm is the acceptance that humans are sexual beings. The silly obsession with labeling people straight, gay, lesbian, and bi is going to disovle away. It's just sex, but only in nature is sex natural- humans have made a complete mess of it.
Dear Info Help, thank you for your wise and beautiful comment. You explained here so many things.
Thumbs up for you. Thank you for visit.
Hi Trumbletree, thank you for your very interesting comment.
Just to explain, while mentioning "holy books" of any religion, I just said the scientific fact: holy books are men-made, as well as everything humanity does. We invented all the rules and laws on this planet, and face consequences because of that. The easiest is to write the rule or the law and say "God told me so". And people do it, I see it even today on various religious or spiritual meetings - when leader of the group wants to accomplish something, he/she just says: "I am the closest to the God, I know what God wants from us, you should listen God". And majority of people are so frightened of God or so uneducated that they just obey.
People obey whatever somebody presents them "as will of God", and I see that as major problem.
If you know the way how would I tell the truth, any truth, if in some old script is written differently, please advice me. Not to mention that script? Others will mention it.
I am not homosexual, so I think that people who are can be the best advocates for themselves. If THEY READ THAT GOD LOVES THEM, and that GOD NEVER TOLD THAT THEY SHOULD BE PUNISHED, they would stop to feel guilty, and start to behave more normal. If they will not feel guilty, the others will become more tolerant. That was the point of my article.
Thank you so much for the visit and your valuable comment.
BTW, not many people are so sexual as you think they are, belive me.
When all the mysteries of the infinite infinite universes with their infinite folds of space and time, and their infinite variations of basic laws, and our own minds have evolved to commpute infinite variables the and we know for certain there exists nothing outside of them, then and only then may we speak accurtely of whether there is or there isn't a god. Are preceptions are so flawed science repeatedly shows us this, and science is flawed it repeated turned over by yet another more accurate representation for what is.
Beware of arguing that if it happens in nature it's okay. Murder happens in nature, chimpazees and incest is rampet in nature.
Sexual? Some forms of phycology argue that all pleasure is a form of sexuality. sex is just the pleasure drive to a greater extreme, but it doesn't matter is it's a hot cup of coffee or a back seat romance, it's just a variation of the same thing.
I think your post was very interesting, especially the part about 1500 species practicing homosexuality. How did the people who observe these 1500 species aquire this knowlege?
Kind of reminds me of a scene from Jurrassic Park where Eon Malcom asks the dinosaur expert how he knows that all the dinosaurs are girls...as not being possible. I would be interested to know where the research came from.
At any rate, I totally agree. I have lived on enough farms and had enough dogs to see homosexuality in nature. So, why people don't understand that the same thing would occur in humans is beyond me. I know some farmers that didn't even like it if the cows were acting gay. (breeders) But, the male cows allways pulled through in getting the female pregnant. But, not all of them, maybe they're bi cows! LOL!!
I think the whole reasons people don't want to believe it is natural, is because we want to think of ourselves as the supreme beings on this planet, to say that we have animal instincts somehow threatens our intelligent design.
The next time I have that instinct, I'll think of those other species and go...Score! Points for our side! Whoop!!
I also want to add what you said about people doing what god says as spot on!
That's why there are so many different religions in the world, because each one had to start somewhere, and stubornly, and blindly people follow. And, those who are hardcore travel the earth to spread the "word" wether the people they find want to hear it or not. In some instances using fear and torture to get their message not only listened to, but followed, and obeyed.
Like where in the heck did Scientology come from? yet people are practicing it more and more.
In Uganda the government wants to execute homosexuals. It seems that some U.S. politicians are backing this repugnant idea. Most of the politicians are fundamentalist Christians, but many ther politicians and nations & religions also persecute people for "being different".
I say, Viva la diferecia! I am straight, happy, and my wife and I socialize with people of many different cultures and both heterosexual and homosexual persuasions. Our favorite couple - the husband is gay, but fathered two wonderful children before he came out and announced his homosexuality. His wife knew it all along, even if he tried to hide it, but they are both happy for their lives and their kids. They remain friends, even as they explore their lives while no longer being married.
I can't say if it nartural, normal or even genetic or a choice. I really don't care. My friends are my friends and whatever they do with their own lives, whatever they believe, is fine with me.
Cheers!
Chef Jeff
I agree with you, Tumbletree: from the time of Freud we have scientists who think that everything is connected with sexuality. If woman dreams about snake, well, subconsciously she dreams about penis. Well, if man dreams about snake, according to this theory, he is certainly homosexual, LOL. Or he just dreams about snake. As well as woman. What is much better explanation.
Thank you for your visit and comment.
Hi, Brimancandy thank you for your so valuable comment.
One of the articles about the topic of animal homosexuality is http://www.news-medical.net/news/2006/10/23/20718. posted in Medical Science News.
I observed my male cats, when younger, they also were sometimes homosexual, he, he...
Scientology is developed from one technique for trauma healing, that Ron Hubbard , who is founder of Scientology Church "invented" (acutally he did not invent it) and used at first as tool for psychological healing and afterwords he decided to create new religion.
I really appreciate your honest and deeply inspiring comment.
Cheff Jeff, I am so proud to know such beautiful and tolerant person as you are.
Viva Cheff Jeff!
Thank you.
Great hub and great debate.
Interesting to read all the comments and interesting to see geography looks like it divides opinion on here.
FOR ME, it really doesn't matter, it is not offensive to me and does not cause any harm. Ultimately it's an expression of love so I don't see how it can cause any negativitiy.
However without wanting to push this debate down negative street. You can have a Natural Illness.
I would agree 100% it is natural in terms of you are born Gay.
I would also add that illness is probably the wrong word to oppose it. As it is not something that kills, spreads or causes harm. I think the argument is Nature vs Nurture.
So GETTING BACK TO THE QUESTION> IT IS NOT AN ILLNESS OR "NATURAL". A gay community can not reproduce so by that very basic foundation it can not be natural.
In my veiw it is a behaviour.
Well, Live and let live, so many women and men cannot reproduce because of infertility, is it natural or not?
Thank you for great comment!
Really think we are born the way we are, whether hetero or homo. At least that's how it's always looked to me. As a result, live and let live is all that makes sense to me.
Scientists seem to think they know why some and not all Gay people are Gay. I say some because I am reluctant to dismiss the choice factor. I am a heterosexual and I wish to believe it is as much my choice as anything else.
I always thought Gay was the more accepted term among homosexuals because it stands for Good As You.
It is easy to say live and let live but for every generation of kids in the playground and late teens at dances it presents a challenge. Maybe in the future it won't present such a challenge at all.
Gays on television used to be shown as wimpy drug dealers or pushers or simply decadent in some other way. Now there are shows that are made by Gays and project a more true to life picture. Maybe that helps.
Thought provoking for sure and I really enjoyed a few of the comments……
As someone who stayed hidden away for a good portion of my life, I can assure you that there is no ‘choice’ involved when it comes to our feelings. Perhaps, in some people’s eyes, this will never really be understood as people tend to fear what they don’t understand. This happens in many different areas whether it be sexuality, religion, skin colours, etc.
It’s not my place to be judgmental, but the biggest problem faced is separation. I find ‘Gay Days’, ‘Pride Parades’, etc ridiculous. All this does is separate those like us from the rest, create labels, and create additional stereotypes. We are no better than anyone else, why should we deserve special days that others are excluded from? Let's have days to celebrate humanity. We should be proud of who are as humans not proud a single characteristic. I guess I really don’t see how our sexuality alone could possibly define who we are when our own individualism is created from so many different elements. Granted, these are just my thoughts on the matter, but I stick with what I know.
I was married, have children, and nobody had a clue. The guilt associated with hiding that from my ex-wife still plagues me even though her and I are best friends. Most people still don't know but I don’t hide it. There comes a time when we have to be true to ourselves otherwise we can bring pain to those closest to us. For those of you who really struggle with this and feed biblical or stereotypical hate towards those like myself give something a try..
Next time you are out, look around, you might be surprised to know who else is in hiding. They hide because they are afraid- afraid of judgment, afraid of segregation, and afraid of you.
Fear is a funny thing isn't it?
Boy, hub pages is very lucky to have so many experts! I think if you spoke to the real experts (ie. the people who have actually studied human sexuality at a post graduate level), I think you would find that there is no serious debate at all. Homosexuality is normal. People that fear homosexuality have fear issues (or perhaps hate issues) and would be well served by seeking help to deal with their issues.
I predict a day will come when kids will be embarrassed by their grandparents hateful and unenlightened views towards gay people. Furthermore, homophobes will be shunned as unpleasant people and likened to those in the flat earth society.
Interesting hub. Actually, ever since I was a kid I assumed homosexuality may not be "the norm" but it is nonetheless natural. I assumed that since I had no idea why I was heterosexual and I just was that way, the same would also be true of homosexuality. They may not know why they are that way, they just are. I agree with you completely. God does not condemn or judge us for these things. Men (in the broader sense of the term) and society do...the Bible was written by men, interpreted by them, etc. I don't believe God wants us to judge for him, but many feel compelled to do so.
Beautiful comment 4everfitness. Thanks.
Thank you very much, Rod for sharing your insight and opinion. I like it.
I could not agree more with you, Fenzero: let`s have days to celebrate humanity...and all life that is surrounding us.
Feelings of guilty towards your ex-wife will not help you: forgive yourself and enjoy your life.
Thank you for being so honest to share your life-experience here.
Hehehe, Courious Jen, it is really many experts here, but the worst is finally over, the newest comments are very tolerant and human. I am glad that you participate in discussion with so beautiful and loving insight.
Thank you so much, Mulbery, your comment touched me deeply.
Well Tat,
Just like the diversity of human sexuality it looks like you managed to provoke a diverse group of comments. That always makes for a good hub. Thumbs up to you on calling in such a wide range of response to a single suggestion.
I remember commenting on this on my forums where I debate a great deal and have always maintained that not so alpha males are an absolute necessity to the evolution of the human race, especially back in the early days of civilisation.
The last thing you would want while the alpha chestbeaters are running off to bonk a mammoth over the noggin is that a load of predators would come onto the scene and take out all the base camp.
It is my feeling that this is the role of the not so machoman, to stay back and effectively guard the camp (pun not intended..maybe :p) and were not looked down upon but fulfilled a very important role.
If a bunch of tigers came along they would have the still have the strength of a male and the necessary skills to avert disaster...which could wipe out that particular civilisation.
What we have now though is no such role for the lesser-alphas, they are simply vilified for some strange reason unknown to me as standards and needs change.
If in the future all the alpha males are wiped out by some kind of virus that attacks the testosterone hormone we will be in serious trouble as then all the alphas who hate gay people will have to start attacking each other to keep in line with their preposterous mandate lol
Thank you so much for visit and comment CSA, your comment is trully inspiring.
Haha, I really love this part of your comment, Sparhawke: "If in the future all the alpha males are wiped out by some kind of virus that attacks the testosterone hormone we will be in serious trouble as then all the alphas who hate gay people will have to start attacking each other to keep in line with their preposterous mandate lol"
BTW, we already have problem with male hormones: it is in my Hub http://hubpages.com/hub/health-hormones
with tittle "Male Gender is in Serious Danger, Effects of Pullution"
Thank you so much for the visit and comment.
Its very debatable issue which is getting loades of attention in many parts of the world.......................
Earlier in india homosexuality was considered as an offense as per indian law but now this law has been scrapped.......
Its a matter of personal choice........ every person has his/her rights and who are we to tell him/her what is wrong and right.........
Its very debatable issue which is getting loades of attention in many parts of the world.......................
Earlier in india homosexuality was considered as an offense as per indian law but now this law has been scrapped.......
Its a matter of personal choice........ every person has his/her rights and who are we to tell him/her what is wrong and right.........
I could not agree more with you, maheshpatwal. Thank you for the visit and comment.
I think that the point people are missing is that 'coming out'is a person's way of simply coming to terms with their true nature. You cannot judge someone for that. However, living a gay lifestyle is where the real controversy comes in but it would seem natural following the coming out stage. Personally, I don't feel comfortable hiding how I feel from my family and people I grew up with, but can I say that my life is my own if I continue to live in denial and secrecy? No. If I let people know, my next step would natrually be to find a man. I do have a problem with men getting married and such, but like i said it would naturally be the next step. Just like this comment, this topic is confusing and full of different opinions. Just wanted to add my bit. @ info, what about when the child hits his or her teen years? If they are raised to think its okay for same sex marriages and relationships, when their own feelings of intamcy kick in they'll be so confused.
This topic IS really confusing, I agree with you, Ely. Human society made it so complicated.
Thank you for the visit and comment.
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WS 2 years ago
I am glad you are straight too. Being Gay is an honor, not everyone could handle the pressure of being different. I am proud to be a homosexual. I bet you are glad you are not black too....